A Much Needed Separation
The world is a beautiful and amazing place. But – packed with a variety of people with different beliefs, cultures and backgrounds – it’s also a complicated place.
Over the course of world history, there’s a regular pattern of both intra-country and inter-country tension. Oftentimes, that turbulence – no matter where it comes up – has one common theme. Religion.
Each world citizen should have the right to practice a religion or not. Similarly, all people should have an equal right to express their beliefs without fear of discrimination. Sadly, that’s just not the way things work.
Here in the United States, we can’t begin to make meaningful strides toward that ideal world goal until the government fully honors a fundamental freedom guaranteed in our Bill of Rights: keeping government out of religion. Completely.
For starters, the government has no business using our money – taxpayer money – to fund what are commonly known as “faith based initiatives.” Especially those that don’t agree to not discriminate in the way in which they hire or deploy services. Similarly, in the 1960s, the Supreme Court proclaimed the unconstitutionality of school-sponsored prayer. Yet there is an unrelenting – and well funded – effort to promote specific beliefs within schools. A student’s right to, also, express a religious/non-religious belief should not be guided or nudged in any particular direction.
It’s not difficult to determine what happens when this kind of funding and persuading occurs – religious minorities and non-religious people suffer discrimination and fiction-based stereotypes are perpetuated. Stereotypes that implicitly teach our children that non-Christian religions are weird and that non-religious people (gasp!) are the devil in disguise.
This kind of bias, clearly evident in government and schools, fosters an environment of fear and hate.
Heck, even within families, talking about religion is oftentimes about as much fun as debating abortion. Funny/sad story… Having traveled so much of the world, we’re always interested in learning more about local citizens – what they eat, what they do, what makes them tick. This includes learning more about the religions they pursue. A few Christmastimes ago, my mom spotted a book on Buddhism that we had picked up in Asia. Thinking we had “chosen Buddhism,” she nearly had a stroke.
We want to advocate for a country and a world where church and state are separate and where people are not discriminated against because of their views on religion.
Currently, in order to walk the talk and to start that advocating in earnest, we are in Washington D.C. to stand with those who choose not to practice a religion. The Reason Rally is staged to be the largest gathering of the secular movement in world history. Stay tuned.
We know people have deep convictions about this topic. What’s your take?
Interesting topic K&C. While not religious myself, I also make a point while travelling to learn about different religions and practices around the world in addition to food, history and so on.
In only one instance, when I asked the usual ‘what’s your view on everyone who ‘does not’ practice your religion, did the respondent (a Tibetan Buddhist of course) answer that that is ok – everyone, including their own children, must practice what is right for them as we are all going to the same place. That response was so refreshing.
I agree with you that religion and government should be dealt with separately and everyone should have the right to practice what is best for them and their life.
I have many more thoughts on this topic (ask my mother) but I’ll avoid taking over your comment feed.
Oh, and I lost it when I imagined your mom ‘nearly having a stroke’ at the sight of your buddhist book. I can relate.
Oh, we want to know more about those conversations between you and your mom!
You’re fighting a good fight, but it’s going to be a heck of a fight. I’m not sure people often change their minds. They usually just die and are replaced with new people with new ideas. Maybe eventually we can see a change, but the truth is that people love to cling. And with religion, it gives the greatest reason to cling for dear life.
All the more reason to insist on the separation of church and state… it’s the law AND a precious one at that because it protects those who practice a religion and those who don’t.
I absolutely think that religion and government should be separate. No questions, no gray lines – SEPARATE.
Glad we can count you on our side
i am totally with you on advocating for separation of church and state. And education. The more we know about other cultures/religions, the more tolerant we become. Ignorance=fear.
So true. And not until we examined so many religions did we fully realize just how fragmenting religion can be when used as a weapon to create an “us / them” mentality.
I could talk about this for hours, both about my beliefs and about the realities of Middle American politics. We have a loooong way to go, my friends.
Next time over brunch
This reminds me of those polls where something like 60% of voters in southern states still believe the president is a Muslim. Given that kind of incredible ignorance, I think ‘reason’ has its work cut out for it. Good for you for taking on the fight.
Thanks, Scott! We just figure that if we say nothing, we’re helping the opposition. Life is too short to live it on the sidelines.
I have a feeling you’d be fun to advocate with. Let’s do it together sometime!
Religion is often contrived by people to justify their acts. No religion teaches to be inhuman.
Beautiful read.
Well said, Arti – thanks!
I wish I was there with you to stand behind this movement! I agree 100%. My daughter had friends over last night and they were talking about song selection for chorus. One of the songs was all about loving and honoring God. Before I even said anything they all agreed that this was inappropriate for school as it assumes everyone believes that and wants to sing a religious song.
Funny – I have been studying Buddhism and practicing meditation. I think my mom would at the least think I was crazy or something!
Great example. We were just talking about how often it’s simply assumed that everyone is religious and, specifically, Christian. We have to keep moving away from that insensitive assumption.
BTW – I think you would have loved the rally. Very inspiring.
Learning about different believes and religions while traveling is a great thing to do, and it’s always intristing to see the position the church has in one or another state.
You are, of course, advocating disestablishmentarianism, as opposed to its counterpart – antidisestablishmentarianism.
Ok, I’m showing off…
I didn’t realize what a great school district that I lived in when raising my daughter — until I look back now. They took a semester and discussed religion — all religion — and visited cathedrals, temples, synagogues, etc. It was presented not as religions, but as a study of views. It was fact-based, unbiased and presented equally. Even, agnostic, spiritual and atheist views were discussed.
If that was how all schools presented religion, I wouldn’t be opposed.
That sounds incredible. We both believe that kids should be able to learn about all options available and then make a decision that feels right.
Interesting fact…. We learned that research has found that atheists know the most about world religions.
I was raised Lutheran, and until the age of 18 I was immersed in fairly fundamentalist Christianity. During one of my weekly confirmation classes (from 6th to 8th grade), my pastor explained that there are three groups of people we know FOR SURE are going to hell: gays, women who have abortions, and Catholics. Seriously.
I spent my childhood timidly poking at flaws in Christianity’s logic, but it wasn’t until I left for college that I started to untangle things for myself. By the end of my freshman year I had worked out that I believe strongly in feminism and that I believe strongly that a god doesn’t exist… and both of those things were connected for me. So anyway, now I’m totally a liberal atheist feminazi who eats babies for breakfast. They’re delicious.
One of the things that really irks me is when Christians say “that was god’s plan” to pseudo-explain away terrible circumstances. Like, it sucks that she was raped and impregnated, but god has a plan for everyone and thus she must be forced to carry that fetus to term!
Here’s the deal. If there really is a god, and that god decides that a person should be raped to further his purposes, then I really don’t want anything to do with that god anyways. He sounds like a jerk.
What a story! That “poking holes” is what gets lots of people in trouble. I think we’re going to write a post about it but, for now, I’ll just say that so many of the individuals we met this weekend were dropped from their families because they started to question the (lack of?) reason in religion.
Completely agree with you on this one. I was raised Catholic and like so many others I am a lapsed Catholic that will never return because of many core beliefs that are against my own. I would be appalled if elected leaders in Canada made decisions made on their own religious beliefs.
We would expect no less from you, Ayngelina
I agree with you that the government should stay out of religion and vice versa. When I first moved to Germany, I had to register with the city. It’s partly so they know where I live so they can charge me for trash, but there are other reasons. One of the things they asked me was if I’m Catholic or maybe Lutheran…I can’t remember what the other religion was. But anyway, they ask because if you say you’re Catholic (or the other one) they will automatically take 5% from your paycheck and donate it to that church. Luckily there is the option to say “neither” or “nothing” and they won’t deduct anything, but still. I found this to be very strange. If a religious person wants to donate to the church, that’s fine, but the government doesn’t need to get in the middle of that. Good luck, I hope you can help make a difference.
Very interesting… sounds like registering for a union.
Great post as always guys.
YES to religion and politics being separate, absolutely 100%. Also, shame on the politicians that use religion as an excuse to force their hateful views on others.
The part of the Bible that “forbids” homosexuality also forbids eating shellfish and wearing clothes made of more than one fabric – yet people don’t seem to abide by the last two. An example of people picking and choosing what parts of a religion to follow to support their own bigotries, with politicians putting it into the political arena.
Imagine if Michelle Bachmann was campaigning on “No to all you can eat seafood restaurants” and “let’s ban nylon in our schools”.
Whatever happened to America being the Land of Opportunity? You can only be president if you’re a good Christian? I’m appalled that the thought of Obama possibly being a Muslim was used as slander against him. A Muslim can’t be president now?
I was Christened in a church, but I’m not a practicing Christian and can’t remember the last time I set food in church other than for sightseeing…quite possibly for a funeral.
America, you still have a LONG way to go to catch up with the rest of the developed world when it comes to politics and tolerance…
Thanks, Tom for your thoughtful comment.
Now that we’ve been in DC for about a week, we have so many more thoughts on the topic. Watch for more in future posts, and we’ll share the REALLY good stuff when we are face-to-face with you one day.
One of the problems seems to be that the concept of religion and the institution of the Church are often very much confused. Religion is a personal belief system that you use to see and interact with the world around you. The Church is a political entity that attempts to influence the world.
One of the points of separation of Church and State was to try to limit the political power of the church. In Germany there are still large swaths of land owned by the church where the inhabitants pay rent to it. As Ali mentioned required taxes to the church for members. It still seems that the Church has its political power, just through a different way. I don’t know why, but I feel here that the Church’s power is less about the day to day issues and more about “no stores may be open on Sunday.”
I happen to think religion is a truly awesome thing. Political entities with motives are not. I include companies in this as well. I would advocate a separation of Companies and State just as well as Church and State. I would also tip lobbyists from either group into a big pile over the border somewhere.
LOL… Yes – a BIG yes – to a separation of Companies and State!
Interesting (and very true) that you say:
“Religion is a personal belief system that you use to see and interact with the world around you.”
What we’re noticing is that many people are finding that their self-formulated belief systems – being a “decent” person, operating with a code of ethics – are more meaningful and authentic than those mandated by specific religions. It makes sense… after all, human goodness preceded religion. And, I think many people have a distaste for the contradictions presented by religion.
One person we just met said: “I like that my religion says, for instance, give to the poor. But, on the other hand, they aren’t holding religious leaders accountable for molesting children.”
As for us… we’ve not thought about it much (not to mention the fact that we’re not really “welcome” by religion) because we’ve always held ourselves to a high standard without the need to layer religion on those standards.
Raised as a Muslim in the world’s largest Muslim country made me believe in the things and teachings that most Muslims do. But as I grew up I started to question so many things which are instilled to people’s mind such as the idea of things or actions which lead to heaven and those which lead to hell. The problem is the practice of the religion itself is mainly based on some out-of-date interpretations of scholars way before our time. The world keeps changing. New understandings about our universe are revealed everyday.
I used to be against gay people (sorry guys!). But now I strongly believe that being gay is not a problem whatsoever and it is as normal as being straight (in fact I have some really close gay friends here in Jakarta). Hatred is the real problem. It is the thing that separates the society. It is the thing that creates war. It is the thing that everyone should be against with.
Back to your post, I can say that we’re on the same boat here for advocating the separation of the state from religion. History has proven that religion has been (and will always be) a tool for any ruler/regime to bring forth their own agenda.
(on a lighter note: most of the world’s greatest monuments were built for religious purposes, though
)